The Soapbox

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What's this?

On what moral authority is the US suggesting Israel must do more to

avoid civilian casualties? First of all, the "health authorities" claiming 18k killed are Hamas. Hamas *is* the authority and stands to gain politically for making Israel look bad.

Second, by their own admission, Hamas has lost at least 5000 (and that was when casualty total was 15k, so probably more now). Therefore Israel is achieving a 1:2 ratio of Hamas:civilian deaths ... which far exceeds what the US was able to achieve in urban warfare in Iraq despite Gaza being orders of magnitude more densely populated AND Hamas actively using civilians as human shields.

Civilian deaths are tragic, but I haven't really heard a better idea for what Israel *should* be doing...

(In response to this post by Lazarus)

Posted: 12/12/2023 at 11:06AM

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Current Thread:

News You Can Use: Can Hamas actually be eliminated? Experts say .... -- Lazarus 12/12/2023 10:27AM

On what moral authority is the US suggesting Israel must do more to -- CharlestonSC 12/12/2023 11:06AM

A couple of thoughts. First off the US is not the only Ally calling for -- 111Balz 12/12/2023 12:39PM

Is the consensus "Only Israel's opinion matters on how it defends itself"? -- Fuzzy Dunlop 12/12/2023 11:52AM

I don’t know what consensus you’re seeing or where, but there is no -- hoolstoptheheels 12/12/2023 12:17PM

Don’t you believe that consensus around the world, especially among -- 111Balz 12/12/2023 12:43PM

Honestly, no. I think the world is incredibly remiss in calling out Hamas’ -- hoolstoptheheels 12/12/2023 1:01PM

Fuzzy was talking about the US, not the world at large. Obviously the 2 -- WahooRQ 12/12/2023 12:37PM

I don’t agree that’s even a consensus in the US, and I think that fact is -- hoolstoptheheels 12/12/2023 12:47PM

No one said it’s the “only perspective”. It isn’t . But it seems like -- WahooRQ 12/12/2023 1:55PM

No, that’s false. They both sided genocide. That’s literally what they -- hoolstoptheheels 12/12/2023 2:52PM

I guess I didn’t hear anyone “both side genocide.” The U Penn lady gave a -- WahooRQ 12/12/2023 3:56PM

From someone who isn’t following the details that closely -- WahooMatt05 12/12/2023 11:39AM

How much money have we given and are giving to Israel? -- Lazarus 12/12/2023 11:27AM

Don't the head turds live in relative luxury in other Countries? I'm -- Tuckahokie 12/12/2023 10:45AM

If the heads live in other countries, why has the IDF killed 20,000 -- Lazarus 12/12/2023 10:47AM

Hamas leaders live in Qatar and are billionaires. However, are you -- CharlestonSC 12/12/2023 11:11AM

Sure if they gave the orders. Funny as Qatar is helping -- Lazarus 12/12/2023 11:28AM

Because they want to. It's revenge, nothing more. The head of Hamas does -- 81_Hokie 12/12/2023 10:56AM

So it has nothing to do with Hamas being pussies that hide behind civilians -- Tuckahokie 12/12/2023 11:08AM

The utter indifference of Israel to civilians is part of the program. It is -- 81_Hokie 12/12/2023 11:20AM

As is the indifference... no that's too kind... the strategic use of -- BocaHoo91 12/12/2023 12:02PM

I expect UN recognized nation states to behave better than world recognized -- 81_Hokie 12/12/2023 12:51PM

"Better than a terrorist org" is not my benchmark. But you seem to think -- BocaHoo91 12/12/2023 2:01PM

No, I don't seem to think that. The point is that Israel could indeed -- 81_Hokie 12/12/2023 4:20PM

If Hamas had tunnels under Israeli settlements there would be no -- Tuckahokie 12/12/2023 11:27AM

Here is a Wapo article on one of the head turds (link) -- Tuckahokie 12/12/2023 10:54AM

Another toothless and pointless article. -- HAZER 12/12/2023 10:42AM

Hamas may get support from Iran or others, but it gets its power -- 111Balz 12/12/2023 12:34PM

That's a mighty fair point. Not holding my breath, unfortunately. ** -- HAZER 12/12/2023 12:43PM

Oh, me neither. It takes two to tango and it’s not clear anyone wants to -- 111Balz 12/12/2023 12:43PM

Not sure I agree that a 2 state solution is something that -- HoosWillWin 12/12/2023 11:48AM

That is the trick. -- HAZER 12/12/2023 11:50AM

There are some Palestinians advocating for a ONE-state solution in -- southdenverhoo 12/12/2023 10:56AM

Hamas and the bibi govt including his far right party alliances want no -- hoolstoptheheels 12/12/2023 4:41PM

Sounds like U.S. immigration/border policy ** -- Hoo TV 12/12/2023 1:06PM

Sort of like Lebanon is one state? -- Quaker 12/12/2023 12:33PM

I do not believe Lebanon's "solution" (from its National -- southdenverhoo 12/12/2023 12:52PM

Israelis election and Palestinian polls would agree with your last point -- Quaker 12/12/2023 1:59PM

Well, both the cross-border raids and the blockade disappear if there is no -- southdenverhoo 12/12/2023 5:00PM

Hopefully that is both true and in the future .... -- BKhoo 12/12/2023 11:55AM

Not the loudest voices. -- HAZER 12/12/2023 11:19AM

IMO, One state solution favors Palestinians, who with higher birthrate -- JohnHoo2 12/12/2023 11:14AM

Yes, the reproduction rate of ethnic minorities is always cited as a reason -- southdenverhoo 12/12/2023 11:20AM

And what’s pathetic is that there are lots of assholes willing to call you -- WahooRQ 12/12/2023 11:05AM

Yea verily ** -- WaxHoo 12/12/2023 10:52AM

Exactly. What do military experts know? ** -- Lazarus 12/12/2023 10:48AM

You have military experts and talking heads combined in that article. -- HAZER 12/12/2023 11:41AM

Laz, military guys gonna tell ya there’s a military solution. How often -- WaxHoo 12/12/2023 10:54AM

I think that was the consensus, of what i posted. You cannot kill -- Lazarus 12/12/2023 11:31AM

We couldn't eliminate Taliban after controlling Afghanistan for one -- JohnHoo2 12/12/2023 10:36AM

Correct, difference is, we could leave Afghanistan. ** -- HAZER 12/12/2023 10:44AM

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