The Soapbox

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What's this?

There are several plans out there.

One of the reasons SS has worked, as you point out, is that it is nearly universal with some balance of paying in/ benefits.

Michael Lind proposes a "Social Security A" -- the current program -- supplemented by "Social Security B" -- a universal flat payment not tied to payroll tax. His argument is that we already use tax policy to benefit private retirement plans.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the plan -- in a learning process -- but we are seeing a transition away from traditional defined benefit pensions, and maybe there are different ways to address this than offering tax benefits for 401ks and IRA.

(In response to this post by BocaHoo91)

Link: Expanded Social Security

Posted: 06/05/2016 at 09:14AM

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Current Thread:

Obama: Let's make Social Security "more generous". -- JMHoo 06/03/2016 10:56AM

Let's say we could efficiently set up a system whereby one could purchase -- CharlestonSC 06/03/2016 9:47PM

What you are proposing would would help make people more financially secure -- ESHooFan 06/04/2016 10:46AM

It would probably help those of us who don't need any help get more $$ but -- WahooRQ 06/04/2016 10:56AM

There are already firms in the private marketplace who offer lower returns -- CharlestonSC 06/04/2016 12:19PM

The "underbanked." Right. Not poor. Just lacking a bank account for some -- SixerHoo 06/04/2016 3:04PM

You cheapen the validity of your arguments with the "ponzi scheme" comment. -- WahooRQ 06/04/2016 12:24PM

Exactly. Hard to take seriously -- DanTheFan 06/04/2016 12:39PM

"Rock solid". That's cute... ** -- Hokie5150 06/04/2016 3:10PM

Social Security *is* a ponzi scheme in everything but name .. it's the same -- CharlestonSC 06/04/2016 1:41PM

Of course it is a ponzi scheme. ** -- ryno hoo 06/04/2016 1:54PM

It's really not a ponzi scheme. In a ponzi scheme, "investors" are not -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 3:43PM

More of a pyramid scheme... ** -- Hokie5150 06/04/2016 11:07PM

It's even less of a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme, as it expands, -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 11:23PM

Re: It's even less of a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme, as it expands, -- Stimp 06/05/2016 07:38AM

I'm speaking in the sense that it take a continually increasing pools of -- Hokie5150 06/06/2016 07:22AM

But it really doesn't. And certainly not at an ever increasing rate like -- BocaHoo91 06/06/2016 09:37AM

Not a ponzi scheme, but it does become full on "retirement welfare". ** -- BocaHoo91 06/05/2016 08:10AM

There are several plans out there. -- DanTheFan 06/05/2016 09:14AM

I don't like the idea of universal social security "b". Most people -- BocaHoo91 06/05/2016 10:42AM

You're all wrong -- it's a Nigerian Prince email! 😩 ** -- WahooRQ 06/04/2016 11:32PM

Exactly. tens of millions of citizens just shake their heads -- 111Balz 06/04/2016 11:30AM

Problem is there is no lock box just IOU's. The government uses SS payroll -- ESHooFan 06/04/2016 10:36AM

When you run annual deficits, what does a lock box even mean? -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 11:50AM

Exactly, SS adds to the deficit at the same percentage as any other -- ryno hoo 06/04/2016 2:12PM

So it HAS a funding source. That IS reality whether you -- 111Balz 06/05/2016 12:18PM

But taking SS out of the gov't budget *would* allow for an actual lockbox -- CharlestonSC 06/05/2016 11:48AM

What do you want to do with the money in the lockbox? ** -- Stimp 06/05/2016 12:46PM

I suspect most working people other than those of us with high-dollar -- WahooRQ 06/03/2016 3:43PM

You think most working people would support receiving -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 10:29AM

Well of course many would. I would support taxing you more -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 3:51PM

Sure -- I was talking about post-Reagan. Obviously the GOP was a much -- WahooRQ 06/03/2016 4:06PM

Yes -- it changed about then ** -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 4:08PM

And used those non-conservative issues to fire up the base and gotv. Sad. ** -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 4:03PM

"Wealthiest" needs to pay more than a little more just to keep SS as is. ** -- JohnHoo2 06/03/2016 1:37PM

What he means by "wealthiest" is what concerns me -- Wahoo Ron 06/04/2016 11:20AM

Don't think it's taxing receipts; it's no top cut-off anymore. -- HowieT3 06/04/2016 5:43PM

Right. And then you turn social security into retirement welfare. -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 8:48PM

There shouldn't be Social Security because (1) people aren't owed -- ryno hoo 06/03/2016 1:06PM

It's only a "Ponzi scheme" if you don't know what one is. -- WahooRQ 06/04/2016 11:03AM

Not explicitly, but I think society as a whole benefits from content -- JohnHoo2 06/03/2016 1:40PM

I agree. But I don't see any reason to make it "more generous" -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 09:44AM

But they spend, and cionsumer spending drives the economy -- 111Balz 06/03/2016 9:15PM

If consumer spending alone drives the economy, why not simply give -- Hokie5150 06/04/2016 06:27AM

If we didn't have it, poresumably we would be more like other countries -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 1:52PM

Or we'd have what we had before it -- 35+% poverty rates among seniors. ** -- WahooRQ 06/03/2016 3:46PM

Yep. As a wise man said, you can't put the poop back in the donkey. And in -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 3:58PM

The two aren't exclusive. I assume when seniors were at that poverty rate, -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 3:52PM

Social Security was never intended to be a person's sole retirement plan... ** -- Hokie5150 06/03/2016 1:31PM

Nor was it design to provide for 20+ years of retirement. ** -- JohnHoo2 06/03/2016 1:35PM

Exactly. Avg lifespan was 68 when it started iirc. ** -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 2:06PM

That isn't the right number to look at because infant mortality -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 2:09PM

A fair point, and good news I would think. But then why aren't we -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 2:23PM

I remember reading something to the effect of when SS started there were -- Tuckahokie 06/03/2016 2:29PM

Presumably the payment demographics have changed also with women getting -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 2:33PM

It isn't in terrible shape, but that is a huge percentage increase in -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 2:27PM

The average person who qualified for it originally was expected to live btw -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 2:04PM

Very true. ** -- Hokie5150 06/03/2016 1:51PM

I am a retiree and live of investment income no pension. So the only -- ESHooFan 06/03/2016 11:52AM

I suspect the 6% investment tax would only kick in at -- BocaHoo91 06/03/2016 1:01PM

Wow, a 6% tax on investment income. That would bring the -- BocaHoo91 06/03/2016 11:46AM

Shouldn't he be asking why the 12.4% being paid doesn't already do that? -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 11:30AM

Great! Glad that he came around -- DanTheFan 06/03/2016 11:21AM

Dan, u take apple polishing to a whole new level ** -- TomKazanski 06/03/2016 12:11PM

Had a good chuckle listening to Barry recently..."Trumps paulacies (spelled -- Tuckahokie 06/03/2016 11:06AM

The endless "just a little bit more" strategy ** -- HokieDan95 06/03/2016 11:05AM

Retirement welfare. Surprised it took 7.5 years. -- Stimp 06/03/2016 11:05AM

It obviously isn't something he could expect to get done now** -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 11:15AM

Why not? When did the ability to pay for something ever stop such -- Hokie5150 06/03/2016 11:22AM

Not possible this late in his term. Would need to control congress and -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 11:25AM

It's all good as long as someone else is paying for it... ** -- Hokie5150 06/03/2016 10:57AM

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