The Soapbox

Joined: 10/15/1998 Posts: 2185
Likes: 2020

1000+ Posts

Board Member 25+ Years

2000 Likes

What's this?

Re: It's even less of a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme, as it expands,

The compulsory participation eliminates the "intent to defraud" requirement, in my view.

A pay-as-you-go scheme drifts over to "Ponzi" when it is apparent the return from investments and/or source-of-funding are known to be insufficient to warrant the promised return. We seem to be there as the Trustees continue to tell us SS will be unable to pay 100% of promised benefits in X years.

But here's food for thought. Does SS go full-on Ponzi if we ever get to means testing?

(In response to this post by BocaHoo91)

Posted: 06/05/2016 at 07:38AM

+0

PREV NEXT REPLY

Insert a Link

Enter the title of the link here:

Enter the full web address of the link here -- include the "http://" part:

Current Thread:

Obama: Let's make Social Security "more generous". -- JMHoo 06/03/2016 10:56AM

Let's say we could efficiently set up a system whereby one could purchase -- CharlestonSC 06/03/2016 9:47PM

What you are proposing would would help make people more financially secure -- ESHooFan 06/04/2016 10:46AM

It would probably help those of us who don't need any help get more $$ but -- WahooRQ 06/04/2016 10:56AM

There are already firms in the private marketplace who offer lower returns -- CharlestonSC 06/04/2016 12:19PM

The "underbanked." Right. Not poor. Just lacking a bank account for some -- SixerHoo 06/04/2016 3:04PM

You cheapen the validity of your arguments with the "ponzi scheme" comment. -- WahooRQ 06/04/2016 12:24PM

Exactly. Hard to take seriously -- DanTheFan 06/04/2016 12:39PM

"Rock solid". That's cute... ** -- Hokie5150 06/04/2016 3:10PM

Social Security *is* a ponzi scheme in everything but name .. it's the same -- CharlestonSC 06/04/2016 1:41PM

Of course it is a ponzi scheme. ** -- ryno hoo 06/04/2016 1:54PM

It's really not a ponzi scheme. In a ponzi scheme, "investors" are not -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 3:43PM

More of a pyramid scheme... ** -- Hokie5150 06/04/2016 11:07PM

It's even less of a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme, as it expands, -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 11:23PM

Re: It's even less of a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme, as it expands, -- Stimp 06/05/2016 07:38AM

I'm speaking in the sense that it take a continually increasing pools of -- Hokie5150 06/06/2016 07:22AM

But it really doesn't. And certainly not at an ever increasing rate like -- BocaHoo91 06/06/2016 09:37AM

Not a ponzi scheme, but it does become full on "retirement welfare". ** -- BocaHoo91 06/05/2016 08:10AM

There are several plans out there. -- DanTheFan 06/05/2016 09:14AM

I don't like the idea of universal social security "b". Most people -- BocaHoo91 06/05/2016 10:42AM

You're all wrong -- it's a Nigerian Prince email! 😩 ** -- WahooRQ 06/04/2016 11:32PM

Exactly. tens of millions of citizens just shake their heads -- 111Balz 06/04/2016 11:30AM

Problem is there is no lock box just IOU's. The government uses SS payroll -- ESHooFan 06/04/2016 10:36AM

When you run annual deficits, what does a lock box even mean? -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 11:50AM

Exactly, SS adds to the deficit at the same percentage as any other -- ryno hoo 06/04/2016 2:12PM

So it HAS a funding source. That IS reality whether you -- 111Balz 06/05/2016 12:18PM

But taking SS out of the gov't budget *would* allow for an actual lockbox -- CharlestonSC 06/05/2016 11:48AM

What do you want to do with the money in the lockbox? ** -- Stimp 06/05/2016 12:46PM

I suspect most working people other than those of us with high-dollar -- WahooRQ 06/03/2016 3:43PM

You think most working people would support receiving -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 10:29AM

Well of course many would. I would support taxing you more -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 3:51PM

Sure -- I was talking about post-Reagan. Obviously the GOP was a much -- WahooRQ 06/03/2016 4:06PM

Yes -- it changed about then ** -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 4:08PM

And used those non-conservative issues to fire up the base and gotv. Sad. ** -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 4:03PM

"Wealthiest" needs to pay more than a little more just to keep SS as is. ** -- JohnHoo2 06/03/2016 1:37PM

What he means by "wealthiest" is what concerns me -- Wahoo Ron 06/04/2016 11:20AM

Don't think it's taxing receipts; it's no top cut-off anymore. -- HowieT3 06/04/2016 5:43PM

Right. And then you turn social security into retirement welfare. -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 8:48PM

There shouldn't be Social Security because (1) people aren't owed -- ryno hoo 06/03/2016 1:06PM

It's only a "Ponzi scheme" if you don't know what one is. -- WahooRQ 06/04/2016 11:03AM

Not explicitly, but I think society as a whole benefits from content -- JohnHoo2 06/03/2016 1:40PM

I agree. But I don't see any reason to make it "more generous" -- BocaHoo91 06/04/2016 09:44AM

But they spend, and cionsumer spending drives the economy -- 111Balz 06/03/2016 9:15PM

If consumer spending alone drives the economy, why not simply give -- Hokie5150 06/04/2016 06:27AM

If we didn't have it, poresumably we would be more like other countries -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 1:52PM

Or we'd have what we had before it -- 35+% poverty rates among seniors. ** -- WahooRQ 06/03/2016 3:46PM

Yep. As a wise man said, you can't put the poop back in the donkey. And in -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 3:58PM

The two aren't exclusive. I assume when seniors were at that poverty rate, -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 3:52PM

Social Security was never intended to be a person's sole retirement plan... ** -- Hokie5150 06/03/2016 1:31PM

Nor was it design to provide for 20+ years of retirement. ** -- JohnHoo2 06/03/2016 1:35PM

Exactly. Avg lifespan was 68 when it started iirc. ** -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 2:06PM

That isn't the right number to look at because infant mortality -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 2:09PM

A fair point, and good news I would think. But then why aren't we -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 2:23PM

I remember reading something to the effect of when SS started there were -- Tuckahokie 06/03/2016 2:29PM

Presumably the payment demographics have changed also with women getting -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 2:33PM

It isn't in terrible shape, but that is a huge percentage increase in -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 2:27PM

The average person who qualified for it originally was expected to live btw -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 2:04PM

Very true. ** -- Hokie5150 06/03/2016 1:51PM

I am a retiree and live of investment income no pension. So the only -- ESHooFan 06/03/2016 11:52AM

I suspect the 6% investment tax would only kick in at -- BocaHoo91 06/03/2016 1:01PM

Wow, a 6% tax on investment income. That would bring the -- BocaHoo91 06/03/2016 11:46AM

Shouldn't he be asking why the 12.4% being paid doesn't already do that? -- Hoodafan 06/03/2016 11:30AM

Great! Glad that he came around -- DanTheFan 06/03/2016 11:21AM

Dan, u take apple polishing to a whole new level ** -- TomKazanski 06/03/2016 12:11PM

Had a good chuckle listening to Barry recently..."Trumps paulacies (spelled -- Tuckahokie 06/03/2016 11:06AM

The endless "just a little bit more" strategy ** -- HokieDan95 06/03/2016 11:05AM

Retirement welfare. Surprised it took 7.5 years. -- Stimp 06/03/2016 11:05AM

It obviously isn't something he could expect to get done now** -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 11:15AM

Why not? When did the ability to pay for something ever stop such -- Hokie5150 06/03/2016 11:22AM

Not possible this late in his term. Would need to control congress and -- KCHoo 06/03/2016 11:25AM

It's all good as long as someone else is paying for it... ** -- Hokie5150 06/03/2016 10:57AM

Notice: Trying to get property 'queue' of non-object in /data/www/sportswar.com/wp-includes/script-loader.php on line 2781

Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /data/www/sportswar.com/wp-includes/script-loader.php on line 2781