The Soapbox

Joined: 01/04/2001 Posts: 27125
Likes: 34456

What's this?

I don’t think we tried it.

I don’t think one can export democracy at the point of a gun. That was always a nonsensical neocon canard. We invaded Afghanistan because its regime attacked us (Taliban housing AQ). Actually one thing I’ll say is no war in history did more to advance women’s rights. Of course only temporarily as it turns out. We invaded Iraq because of neoconservatism.

This is not a foreign power coming in and imposing a solution. Israel and Palestine are coexisting facts on the ground. Nobody can impose a one or two state solution on them. Obviously after all this time. Nobody’s really trying. It’s up to Israel and Palestine to travel that path together. They came somewhat close a couple of times. Seems further than ever now, but it’s that or never ending conflict.

Bibi’s going for never ending conflict. Hamas too. Neither is pursuing their people’s goals. They are pursuing their own.

(In response to this post by CharlestonSC)

Posted: 11/15/2023 at 11:33AM

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Current Thread:

If you were in charge of policy for Israel, what would be your “end game?” -- CharlestonSC 11/15/2023 09:51AM

I would counter your claim by saying -- Zhoo 11/15/2023 2:14PM

Israel did not kill Rabin - a single whack job did -- CharlestonSC 11/15/2023 2:51PM

But you equate the whole of palestine with Hamas..... -- Zhoo 11/16/2023 3:29PM

Not a single whack job; whack jobs don't really live in a vacuum -- Quaker 11/15/2023 3:37PM

Its the same shit, different colors -- Zhoo 11/16/2023 3:35PM

Pave Gaza City (North) and expand the buffer zone in the South -- Quaker 11/15/2023 12:20PM

Pic -- ryno hoo 11/15/2023 11:32AM

I'm not saying it is best, but if I'm the King of Israel I use post-Civil -- Faz d. Hoo 11/15/2023 10:25AM

I can’t imagine Israel’s current government saying ‘With malace -- Lazarus 11/15/2023 10:51AM

That assumes of course that Israel subjugates Palestine w/out intervention -- WanderingHoo 11/15/2023 10:36AM

If you're king, you bet that Arab states are not willing to go to war on -- Faz d. Hoo 11/15/2023 10:43AM

That's a Whale bet for sure ** -- WanderingHoo 11/15/2023 10:50AM

I have to push back a little on your initial framing -- WanderingHoo 11/15/2023 10:08AM

Listen to the podcast I just posted above - the religious underpinnings -- RML Hoos 11/15/2023 10:34AM

I don’t buy it. Prosperity is the best antidote to extremism. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 10:42AM

Did that work where we’ve tried it in Iraq or Afghanistan? -- CharlestonSC 11/15/2023 11:00AM

To pile on to hool’s comments below, to bring prosperity, the peoples will -- 111Balz 11/15/2023 2:39PM

I don’t think we tried it. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 11:33AM

There’s another option. A one state solution. A greater Israel -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 10:13AM

A one state solution would only work -- Zhoo 11/15/2023 1:58PM

Call it Zion? ** -- Faz d. Hoo 11/15/2023 6:14PM

Semite :) -- Zhoo 11/16/2023 3:31PM

Same is true of any two state solution - both sides make concessions, or -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 2:50PM

Different concessions -- Zhoo 11/16/2023 3:32PM

Not if you had to figure out how to split scarce resources like -- hoolstoptheheels 11/16/2023 6:25PM

A two state solution is SOOO much more achievable because all it really -- RML Hoos 11/15/2023 10:44AM

Here’s where I disagree: -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 10:51AM

If that were actually the case - we would have one world goverment -- RML Hoos 11/15/2023 11:01AM

No, RML, you converted my comment into a sweeping generalization. I didn’t -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 11:24AM

Are you saying that one state or two state are equally achievable - if -- RML Hoos 11/15/2023 11:32AM

How do you achieve a 2 state solution at this point -- Zhoo 11/15/2023 2:16PM

Yes, actually, I am, although I’d use “equally unlikely” at the moment. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 11:38AM

There are two ways that happens -- WanderingHoo 11/15/2023 10:25AM

No, there’s a third option, and nothing prevents it except politics. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 10:34AM

That would probably require two votes -- WanderingHoo 11/15/2023 10:47AM

I don’t disagree, except that I think the perils of both approaches are -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 10:53AM

I bet you a 3 state solution would work -- Zhoo 11/16/2023 3:37PM

It was not. ** -- hoolstoptheheels 11/16/2023 6:20PM

Hey, there's a reason nobody has solved this yet ** -- WanderingHoo 11/15/2023 10:55AM

I would start with a great deal of skepticism about what the people of -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 10:04AM

In 06, Hamas ran on a different platform than they would today -- Zhoo 11/15/2023 1:51PM

I am willing to look past a 2007 election but more current opinion polls -- CharlestonSC 11/15/2023 10:14AM

No, that’s too zero sum. It’s not hard to understand how rank and file -- hoolstoptheheels 11/15/2023 10:20AM