Are there DEI programs that may have issues? Sure. Does that mean we should group all DEI initiatives into being labeled as having issues? Are there other programs in place that overvalue whiteness in the hiring process? I will assume that since you have issues with DEI that you also have major issues with all other hiring practices given the huge equity differences in male versus female and white versus nonwhite promoting practices and pay.

I'd also like to know if you have ever said to a minority that you'd like to see a more colorblind society. Those that I have seen hear about that, laugh at it. Nothing against you personally, but it's just so far off from where we are, something you alluded to and I appreciate that, that it minimizes the lived existence of minorities. Race and racism is something they live in every single day of their lives.