The Soapbox

Joined: 01/04/2001 Posts: 27085
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I would - I think SDH’s perspectives are always productive.

I didn’t miss that point - I think Kissinger saw ends justifying means for more reasons than just “power”, which was Nixon’s chief concern (along with JFK’s, and LBJ’s as well, in ramping up the war even when they knew it was pointless). I suspect Kissinger saw it more as an existential battle against communism, informed very much by his own early experiences.

My disagreement with SDH (and those more aligned with him) is that retrospectives of Kissinger ignore any of the complexities of his legacy. In fact, I think they’re the ones tending to see it in more black and white terms.

(In response to this post by WahooRQ)

Posted: 11/30/2023 at 10:29AM

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I noticed the Kissinger discussion below. Here’s the Rolling Stone take. -- MBHoo 11/30/2023 08:16AM

Yet the peacenik hippies back a proxy war in Ukraine. -- ryno hoo 11/30/2023 09:23AM

Meh. War is messy. ** -- JMHoo 11/30/2023 08:59AM

I like that the author conveys adequate frothing of the mouth in that. ** -- ResistHoo 11/30/2023 08:44AM

They live and breathe outrage ** -- HokieDan95 11/30/2023 09:47AM

Not a fan of comparing Kissinger to Timothy McVeigh on the occasion of his -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 08:37AM

Isn’t the issue more undermining peace talks to help Nixon win, and then -- WahooRQ 11/30/2023 09:37AM

No. I think that’s the recreated history many tell of the era. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 09:54AM

It sounds like you missed the issue on Vietnam. Which was that -- WahooRQ 11/30/2023 10:16AM

Well, there was also their conduct of the war between 1969 and 1973 as well -- southdenverhoo 11/30/2023 10:37AM

Let me make a probably futile attempt to add some grey here. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 10:55AM

I agree that it’s unlikely his intentions were to kill people, but -- 111Balz 11/30/2023 11:50AM

Exactly. He thought preventing the dominos falling overrode all other -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 12:00PM

Futile yes, but also flawed, and without regard to consequences for anyone -- 111Balz 11/30/2023 12:24PM

I think he was erroneously assessing the long term consequences to us. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 1:49PM

His statements at the time obtained by various authors via FOIA -- southdenverhoo 11/30/2023 12:35PM

Not mine - I think your perspectives are reasonable and well informed. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 1:45PM

We'll know more in ten years.... ** -- SchmHoo 11/30/2023 1:22PM

Guessing you won’t be getting an invitation to the funeral.😎 ** -- 111Balz 11/30/2023 12:43PM

That still assumes he was more concerned with fighting communism than..... -- SchmHoo 11/30/2023 12:17PM

I would - I think SDH’s perspectives are always productive. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 10:29AM

Some things really are black and white, is my oversimplified rebuttal. (I -- southdenverhoo 11/30/2023 10:38AM

Oh my god. He was judged and reviled contemporaneously for what was -- southdenverhoo 11/30/2023 10:11AM

So you think there’s no context, no personal perspective of his based on -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 10:23AM

It's cooler when we do it to civil war perxons. ** -- ResistHoo 11/30/2023 08:49AM

Well put. A lot of us admire Winnie. He his beyond -- Lazarus 11/30/2023 08:43AM

Rolling Stone seems very happy...they couldn't wait a few days? ** -- Tuckahokie 11/30/2023 08:28AM

What about the bereaved? ** -- ryno hoo 11/30/2023 09:15AM

The tongue baths of the establishment press deserved a rebuttal. In any -- southdenverhoo 11/30/2023 09:14AM

I don’t think remembrances in total have been “tongue baths”. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 10:06AM

Thanks and I wrote my argument to your post above before reading this; we -- southdenverhoo 11/30/2023 10:14AM

No need. You’re as thoughtful a poster as any on this board. -- hoolstoptheheels 11/30/2023 10:34AM

And we have to remember that the roots of Rolling Stone magazine are in the -- 111Balz 11/30/2023 09:37AM

Here come the trolls with their dated “Jackie” references — you just wait! ** -- WahooRQ 11/30/2023 09:39AM

Noooooooooooooooo!!!!! Here they come!!! Noooooooooooooo!!!!! ** -- Hokieesith 11/30/2023 09:54AM

Haha! And proclaimed by possibly the board's biggest Troll no less. ** -- Hoodafan 11/30/2023 10:00AM

No , Hokiestith is NOT the biggest troll on the board. And good news, -- 111Balz 11/30/2023 12:30PM

Hooduh is the only loser with 20,000 posts under his sock puppet (I can’t -- WahooRQ 11/30/2023 1:14PM

One trick ponies, and their trick is to roll over and play brain dead -- 111Balz 11/30/2023 09:46AM

Looks like your buddy cap already beat me to it ** -- WahooRQ 11/30/2023 09:49AM

Something happened that night! ** -- Hokieesith 11/30/2023 09:56AM

No ** -- ResistHoo 11/30/2023 08:50AM

I’m assuming Kissinger articles were written like ten years ago -- WahooMatt05 11/30/2023 08:34AM

Balzie approves of that link. ** -- FrankGallagher 11/30/2023 08:19AM