Time with similar complaints (sometimes nostalgia distorts that). Reagan was both beloved and reviled, depending on who you talk to (I voted for him twice - only time I’ve ever done that, but I recall a poll when I was still in college, so before all the Iran Contra stuff, where he was the top response around the world as both the most admired and the most hated public figure). Before Reagan? Carter and Nixon?

Almost any two term pres, not to mention many 1 termers, generally leave the country looking for something different. We had Clinton fatigue at the end of the ‘90s, in spite of that being an awesome decade for the US by almost any measure. We had Bush fatigue at the end of his two terms.

There is something very different going on this time around. Some of it is simply the state of the world. While there was no shortage of partisans criticizing the result in 2000, and in 2016, there was certainly no concerted effort to discredit all American elections by an entire party after 2000. Gore conceded when the Supreme Court ruled, which means the party officially conceded, whatever noise some partisans made. The country had no problem uniting around Bush after 9/11.

I believe the aftermath of 2016 was much closer to 2000 than to 2020, although I have to acknowledge partisan disagreement on that point now. Clinton conceded, and there was no concerted effort by the party to discredit American elections. Which is where all the “Russian hoax” noise comes in - that’s the familiar whaddabout routine from current repub defenders of 2020 election responses.

I’d like to avoid a rehashing of “Russia was a hoax”! “No it wasn’t”. I did agree at the time that dems were beyond way out over their skis in calling for Trump to be impeached over it. Those dems who called for it, that is, which was not all - Pelosi of all people kept the wolves in her party at bay. But again, that’s not the point - I don’t have to defend all dems in their eagerness to impeach, and declare Trump an illegitimate pres, to assert something very different is going on now.

Now, we see a concerted effort from an entire party to discredit the nation’s ability to hold elections. A president who literally called state officials demanding they conjure votes out of thin air, and now repub state legislatures passing laws to allow them to disavow their pres elections for no reason other than they don’t like the result, and appointing pure partisan hacks as election officials, so that they will do as they are told next time their wannabe strongman cult leader calls demanding they conjure votes out of thin air.

We are firmly isolated in our echo chambers like never before IMO. The internet and social media is supercharging partisanship, which was already pretty supercharged by cable propaganda channels masquerading as news. We’ve always accepted the tenet that democracy relies on an informed public. That’s why we need a First Amendment. I don’t think any of us have ever considered how democracy survives when people are informed, but about at least 2 completely distinct realities. If not more. And they only accept their own version.

Half the country, give or take, wants secession or civil war? Or at least thinks it’s inevitable? I’m not so sure we’ll survive this. When the last 2 elections feature Hillary vs Trump and Biden vs Trump, out of a nation of well over 330 million, many of whom are extremely impressive, there’s a major problem with the country, not just the political establishment. The establishment responds to the incentives that we the voters provide. So if we are going to survive this, I think changes will have to be bottom up. The political establishment will change if the incentives we give them change.
[Post edited by hoolstoptheheels at 12/02/2021 10:48AM]