The Soapbox

Joined: 01/04/2001 Posts: 27159
Likes: 34521

What's this?

It’s also a cold, hard strategic issue.

While I’d be hesitant to draw conclusions about any sudden specific reports, things of this sort are almost unavoidable, given the battleground.

Beyond the tragedy of innocent deaths, every example of this plays directly into hamas’ hands. Their goal was to kill as many Israeli citizens as possible, as brutally as possible to raise Israeli rage to maximum, and then get them to kill as many innocent Palestinians as possible. Part of why I disagree with objections raised yesterday to the phrase “collateral damage”. For Hamas, every citizen, regardless of nationality and ethnicity, is a target of their operation. For Israel, every single civilian death is collateral damage they wish they could avoid.

Hamas, to their credit, if I can stomach using that in a sentence with “Hamas”, has maneuvered Israel into a severe dilemma. They can’t not respond to the barbarity, without inviting attacks like this over and over. It’s just too easy for terrorists to melt back into their densely populated enclaves. But as these innocent deaths happen (Gaza authorities reporting 500 deaths in the hospital bombing) and go viral, Israel undermines its own goals, and helps advance Hamas’.

Trick is for Israel to try to be cold and calculating in their planning - a very tall order, which we certainly didn’t manage after 9/11.
[Post edited by hoolstoptheheels at 10/17/2023 3:26PM]

(In response to this post by Cav113)

Posted: 10/17/2023 at 3:23PM

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Current Thread:

Yikes! Israelis allegedly bombed a hospital in Gaza -- Hoodeac 10/17/2023 2:09PM

Israeli official is claiming it was a malfunctioning Hamas rocket -- Hoodeac 10/17/2023 3:41PM

SCUD II ** -- Tuckahokie 10/17/2023 4:21PM

Islamic Jihad; pure ISIS vs. Hamas's Hezbollah lite Iranian proxies -- Quaker 10/17/2023 4:07PM

Key word being allegedly (link) -- JMHoo 10/17/2023 3:37PM

IDF now saying Hamas put an errant missile into its own hospital (link) -- JMHoo 10/17/2023 3:44PM

Cutting up sewer and water pipes for rocket fuselages...what can go wrong? ** -- Tuckahokie 10/17/2023 4:24PM

It fits with their goal of turning Gaza city into a gravel pit -- Quaker 10/17/2023 3:02PM

It fits your goal of blaming Israel without waiting for the facts. -- Hoos Operator 10/18/2023 3:10PM

You misunderstand my outlook; and my outlook does give me pause; BUT -- Quaker 10/18/2023 4:15PM

Yeah, that’ll generate waves of good will ** -- WaxHoo 10/17/2023 2:43PM

Lets see what comes out. -- 06 Hoo 10/17/2023 2:40PM

Man, the only thing more narrow than Gaza is the moral high ground... -- Cav113 10/17/2023 2:35PM

It’s also a cold, hard strategic issue. -- hoolstoptheheels 10/17/2023 3:23PM

You might have a point if you are a WW2 veteran. but that was 80 freaking -- 81_Hokie 10/17/2023 2:53PM

How many innocent people died in our forever wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? -- hoolstoptheheels 10/17/2023 3:24PM

That's a good question. ** -- HAZER 10/17/2023 4:12PM

We learned nothing from Edwin Starr ** -- 111Balz 10/17/2023 3:34PM

I think the argument remains, ugly and terrible to consider, but valid... -- Cav113 10/17/2023 3:01PM

Applying actuarial concepts to human lives really sucks...but there may be -- Tuckahokie 10/17/2023 3:08PM

Well, war sucks and strategies are developed based on those same concepts. -- Cav113 10/17/2023 3:27PM

First rule of Middle East fight club, believe half what you hear... -- HAZER 10/17/2023 2:31PM

Hence the “allegedly” disclaimer -- Hoodeac 10/17/2023 2:37PM

Exactly. Or to have cleared out the hospital. -- HAZER 10/17/2023 3:08PM

Its what happens when Hamas uses hospitals, schools, residential buildings -- RML Hoos 10/17/2023 2:19PM

So hospital patients were to just get outta their beds and leave? ** -- WaxHoo 10/17/2023 2:47PM

No, likely those who were there could not leave. -- RML Hoos 10/17/2023 3:32PM

Hitting that hospital is no accident ** -- WaxHoo 10/17/2023 3:38PM

RML's position is consistent. Perhaps it's correct. He's certainly free f -- southdenverhoo 10/17/2023 3:02PM

Is there any number of civilian casualties that Israel can inflict -- 81_Hokie 10/17/2023 2:41PM

I’m not ok with anything that happened on Oct 7 or after. -- hoolstoptheheels 10/17/2023 3:38PM

We killed 100,000 in a single night in Tokyo, right? -- RML Hoos 10/17/2023 3:09PM

Fire bombing...imagine the effect when most of the structures are wooden ** -- Tuckahokie 10/17/2023 3:15PM

See my post above about ancient history and changing ideas. But you did -- 81_Hokie 10/17/2023 3:12PM

Any civilian casualties are too many and there is not specific limit. -- RML Hoos 10/17/2023 3:19PM

It's not a question of going to war or not, it's a question of targeting -- 81_Hokie 10/17/2023 3:32PM

RML: what are those people doing in a soccer stadium? Israel told them to -- southdenverhoo 10/17/2023 3:04PM

I said it’s wasn’t realistic that everyone could leave - and this is awful. -- RML Hoos 10/17/2023 3:14PM

This is the danger. Gaza seems pretty compact. I don't know how you avoid -- Seattle .Hoo 10/17/2023 2:12PM

Hitting their target isn't a fuckup ** -- Fuzzy Dunlop 10/17/2023 2:10PM

But it’s a huge fuck up from a optics perspective -- Hoodeac 10/17/2023 2:21PM

If it hasn't happened yet, I don't think it's going to happen -- Fuzzy Dunlop 10/17/2023 2:22PM

I guarantee the Biden Admin doesn’t want a bloodbath -- WahooMatt05 10/17/2023 2:36PM

I don’t know. TV makes everything very -- HoosWillWin 10/17/2023 2:33PM

I don't think anyone wants a bloodbath except Hamas, Iran, etc. If Israel -- RML Hoos 10/17/2023 2:27PM

I think the next few weeks will prove or disprove your theory about Israel -- southdenverhoo 10/17/2023 3:10PM

I don’t think Israel wants a bloodbath, but it appears it has chosen to -- 111Balz 10/17/2023 3:39PM

Israel doesn’t want a bloodbath - it’s might be what unfortunately happens -- RML Hoos 10/17/2023 3:22PM

I agree they didn't want a bloodbath until there was justification for it. -- southdenverhoo 10/17/2023 3:50PM